JRD Tata Oration Two

JRD Tata Oration Two



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JRD TATA
'[
MEMORIAL ORATION
..
1WO
POPULATION FOUNDATION OF INDIA
,
NEWDELID
(October 26, 1996)

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JRD TATA
MEMORIAL ORATION
e
lWO
Mr. Chandra Shekhar
on
POPULATION AND DEVELOPMENT
CRISIS IN INDIA
POPULATIONFOUNDATIONOF INDIA
NEWDELID
(October 26, 1996)

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POPULATION AND DEVELOPMENT CRISIS IN INDIA
Copyright ~ 1996 by Population Foundation of India. All rights reserved. No part of this
publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any from or
by any means, electronics, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise, without the
prior written permission of the publisher.
Published by:
Mr. H.P. Nagpal
Secretary and Treasurer
Population Foundation of India, New Delhi.
Editing and Production by:
Uma Yadav
Printed by:
Sonu Printing Press, 92H/2, Pratap Market, Munirka,
New Delhi - 67. Tel.: 6104029,6164990

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PREFACE
-"
The Population Foundation of India has
been actively involved in promoting family
planning programmes and related research
and advocacy for the last 25 years. The late
Mr. JRD Tata, founder Chairman of the Foun-
dation had been the spirit behind not only in
conceiving the idea of population stabilization
JRDTata through voluntary efforts in
(1904-1993) order to acceleratethepace
of econ<;>miacnd social development but also
gave it a shape in the form of what the
Foundation is today, committed to the causes
of population stabilization, reproductive health
and family welfare.
Mr. ChandraShekhar
In the memory of late Mr. JRD Tata,
the Population Foundation of India has in-
stituted an Annual Oration on Population and
Development in 1995, its Silver Jubilee Year.
The first lecture was delivered by
Mr. Ramakrishna Hegde, well known states-
man and political leader. The second JRD
Dr.BharatRam Tata Memorial Lecture has been delivered
by Mr. Chandra Shekhar, former Prime Minister of India, on
Population and Development Crisis in India.
Mr. Chandra Shekhar, being a statesman and a political
leader of long standing and repute and a crusader against
poverty,social inequalitiesand disparities,all his life,has aptly
drawn attention to the two major factors which have come
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up in the way of populationstabilization: acute poverty and
lack of education. He advocateda policythat provides people
the basic minimum needs of health and educationand involve-
ment of youth in nation-buildingwhich would bring about
the desired change in favour of small family norm.
Mr. Chandra Shekhar minced no words in attacking the
system for ignoring the basic needs of the people that have
been guaranteed by the Constitution.His views to look at the
population problem and policies in a wider perspective of
national development deserve serious attention. He exhorted
the politicians, corporate sector, governmental and non-gov-
ernmental organizationsto work together towards creating a
sense of economic and social security among the people so
that theycan decidefor themselvesaboutthe smallfamilynorm.
Dr. Bhar~t Ram, Chairman of Population Foundation of
India, in his welcome address drew attention of politicians to
do something urgently to deal with population explosion. He
urged Mr. Chandra Shekhar to take a lead in involving all
political parties and social organizations at the national' and
state levels to accept "Population Stabilization" as a social and
economic compulsion. He .expressed his feelings that unless
we act soon, we would be blamed by our future generations.
and rightly so; that we knew the problem but did nothing to
correct it. It is a national issue and deserves priority at the
same level as our national security.
The lecture was followed by a lively question-answer
session in which eminent population experts, scholars and
media persons participated. Mr. Chandra Shekhar candidly
replied the questions on wide ranging issues, such as lack of
political will in population control, status of women and the
role of education in promoting family planning.

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I am surethat this secondJRD Tata MemorialOration will
focus attention of allconcernedin carryingforward the national
debate onthe issueof populationstabilization.
31.12.1996
.Dr.K.SRINIVASAN
Exa:utiveDiran"

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JRD TATA MEMORIAL LECTURE
...
Welcome Address by Dr. Bharat Ram
Shri Chandra Shekhar Ji, distinguished guests, ladies and
<.
gentlemen,
It is my privilege to welcome all of you, especially
Shri Chandra Shekhar Ji for being with us today at the Second
JRD Tata Memorial lecture.
JRD Tata, in whose memory we all have assembled here
today, was a man of deep commitment to national growth and
development. We allknow about his great contributionsto the
industrial growth of India, but his concern and contributions
on social issues, such as poverty, unemployment and ever
growing population are no less important. The establishment
of the Population Foundation of India 25 years ago by JRD
Tata along with a few other concerned industrialists, is a
testimony of great visionthat JRD Tata had in contributing, in
a humble way, to the national endeavour of population
stabilisation. In his honour the Population Foundation ofIndia
has instituted the "JRD Tata Memorial Oration" series.
This year, we have the honour. and privilege of having
with us Shri Chandra Shekhar Ji, former Prime Minister of
India, to deliver the second JRD Tata Memorial Oration.
Shri Chandra Shekhar Ji needs no introduction.
Chandra Shekhar Ji has been a great parliamentarian for over
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three decades and as Prime Minister of India, has left a deep
impression on all of us by his dedication and determination in
championing causes aimed at the upliftment of downtrodden
and his commitment to rapid socio-economic development.
We stillremember him as a 'Young Turk' of the 1960's when,
while being within the Congress, he had courage of his
convictions and campaigned against what he considered as
vested interests.
I am extremely grateful to Shri Chandra Shekhar Ji for
having agreed to deliver the Second JRD Tata Memorial
lecture.
Chandra Shekhar Ji, the problem of growth of population
has not been giventhe attention that was necessary, right from
independence. Unfortunately, even Gandhiji considered self-
restraint as the only method ofpopulatiOricontrol which, I am
sorry to say was not practical. Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru used
to say that ifwe have one mouth, there are two hands to feed it.
So went the story of 32 millionmouths reaching nearly a 100
million in fifty years. One feels sad that no political party
even cared to emphasise the need for some concrete steps to
restrict population growth intheir Election Manifestos. There
is no mention of familyplanningeven in the minimumcommon
programme of the United Front Government. In my view, the
need for population control cannot be overstressed. Although
we have progressed and achieved certain landmarks in
agricultural, industrial and other fields,but because of the ever
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growing population there is no perceptible effect on the
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standard of living of our people. The number of poor and
illiterate have in fact grown bigger on account of incessant
growth of population.
Imagine if our population had been contained at 700
million,although eventhis is a very highpercentage ofincrease,
instead of the present 950 million,what would have been the
impact on the living standards of the people:
1. Unemployment measured by applicants on the live
register of employment exchanges which currently is
about 36 million would have nearly disappeared.
2. The literacy rate which is less than 50% would have
gone over 80%.
3. The number of hospital beds per 1000population would
have increased from 0.9 to 1.5.
4. Per capita availabilityof foodgrains would have gone
up from 177kgs. at presentto 230 kgs.. Sugaravailability
would have been 1.5 kgs. against 0.8 kg. today.
I have only mentioned a few items which would have
affected the standard'of livingof the people if population had
not grown at the present level.
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Not only this, one of the biggest disasters of denuding of
the forests for the sake offire wood would not have been so
severe. More facilities,includinghousing, would have become
possible and standard ofliving of the people would have been
considerably better which would have also lead to a much
greater security and improvement in social tensions.
I am fullyaware that this task is not small. Apart from the
efforts beingmade by the Centralgovernment, States and even
Non-GovernmentalBodies likePopulation FoundationofIndia
will have to playa major role in promoting population control
measures. Oneofthe most importantinputsfor familyplanning
is education, particularlythat of females. It would be observed
that in States like Kerala where education is widespread,
population growth has been well contained. Unfortunately,
the most populous States ofU.P. and Bihar where education
levelis low are the worst as far as familyplanningis concerned.
The Population Foundation ofIndia was established as an
independentNon-GovernmentalBody to addressto the various
challenges posed by the growing population of India. The
objective was not only to identifYthe strengths and weakness
of the official programme of family planning and to suggest
ways of supporting and strengtheningtheir effects, but more
importantlyto promote Non-Governmental Organisations and
Corporate sectors in this massive national endeavour.
Population Foundation of India has been supporting research
projects mostly in the non-governmentaland corporate sector,
whileplayinga leadingrole inbringingto focus the significance
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of population issues to all strata of society and co-ordinate
their efforts with the Centra 1and State Governments.
Chandra Shekhar Ji, it is time now that a person of your
stature and charisma takes the lead in involving all political
parties and socialorganisationsat the National and State levels
to accept "PopulationControl" as being a social and economic
compulsion. Unless we act soon, we would be blamedby our
future generations and rightly so, that we knew the problem
but did nothing to correct the situation. It is a national issue
and deserves priority at the same levelas our national security.
Ladiesand gentlemen,ShriChandra ShekharJihas chosen
for his lecture an appropriate topic of "Population and
Development Crisis in India". His talk, I am sure, would be
enlightening and his insightsabout Indian society and politics
will put the issue of population and development in a proper
perspective which will help in evolving a more meaningful
philosophy and strategies to limit population growth so that
the objective of more rapid and equitable development of the
country could be achieved. .
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POPULATION AND DEVELOPMENT
CRISIS IN INDIA
}
Mr. Chandra Shekhar
S hri Bharat Ram Ii, Ladies and Gentlemen,
It is my proud privilegeto be with you this evening. I am
more privileged to be associated with the JRD Tata Memorial
Oration. JRD was an illustrious son of India. He did make
contributions not only in the field of industrialisation of this
country but he was a man, who had the future of India in his
mind. He had deep commitment about the total development
includingdevelopment ofthe humanbeings in this country. He
thought of humanbeingas Iigreat resourcefor the development
of a nation. This is why he took initiative in many fields. He
took risks manya time in his lifein order to see that something
new happens. Even in the field of controlling population he
took the initiative. A man of adventure, JRD Tata took risks
and contributed a lot in many fields of development and
industrialisation. He made India to a large extent dependent
more upon her own resources in the field of capital goods
industries. JRD had vision to develop education and health
services in the corporate sector and made Tata house an
instrument of contributing for the development of human
resources by encouraging work in the field of education and
health services. He was convinced that by taking calculated
risks, many problems facing the country, can be solved.
Unfortunately, now the trend is that we want a secure and
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smooth way and there is no smooth way in solvingthe various
crisis before the country.
In recent times due to efforts of many national and
international agencies, enlightened governments, non-
governmental organisations and individuals with missionary
zeal, there has been a growing awareness about the wisdom
of small familynorm. The educated and the relatively better-
off sections of society have accepted the small family norm.
This is more evident in familieswhere women are educated
and working. But this changeof attitude alone willnot achieve
lower birth rate because death rate is falling at a faster rate.
Among the economicallybackward families, children are not
considered as a drag or burden for the families, but are seen
as a securityfor the old age. Unless there is a sense of security,
people cannot be expected to change their value system. This
can be ensured only through institutional guarantees. These
aspects have been widely accepted.
We can achieve the desired goal only through the willing
co-operation of the population. Whether it is th~ pill or other
contraceptives,their adoptionlargelydepends on the voluntary
decisions of the individuals. The lessons of the Emergency
when family planning was sought to be promoted through
coercion, can neverbe forgotten. Efforts at creatingawareness,
especially among the poor and un-educated, should be
vigorously pursued. In this endeavour, support of all
enlightened individuals in the society is of paramount
importance.
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Population issue has for long been discussed in terms of
numbers. There are frighteningconclusions when population
'I
projections are made for individual nations as made also for
the globe. There is no dearth of scholars who cling to the
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predictions of Malthus. This pessimism emanates trom lack
of faith in the capacity and genius of people to face the
challenge. The people will have to be informed and made to
debate the issues in a wider perspective and be made aware
of the serious consequences of the nature of population
challenge that the Indian society is facing today. JRD took a
pioneering initiative in this direction, Excessive concern only
about numbers is a simplisticview of the population problem.
Mere counting of people does not provide the insight to
understandthe problem. Theknowledgeofthe socio-economic
environment and physical conditions in which they live is
essential. Understanding the factors that bring them together
or encouragefissiparoustendenciesare equallyimportant. The
growing awareness of individual rights without reciprocal
sense of obligationto the societyas a whole has its own impact
on the ability of a nation to deal with such a challenging'task.
In essence, population problems and policies have to be
discussed and located in a wider perspective of national
development.
11
Discussions on health are often related to the problems of
diseases and sickness of the current population. This is
undoubtedly important. But quality of human capital of a
country is determined by two primary factors: physical and
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mental health; and acquired knowledge and skills. Protein
calorie deficiencyunder age 3 can lead to permanent reduction
in brain cells and to permanent stunting of the central nervous
system. The periods of infancy and adolescence are
particularly sensitive, as is the foetus stage. Given these
realities it is an absolute necessity to give the highest priority
for care ofthe expectant mothers and children. Unfortunately,
there is no meaningful programme in India to take up this
extremely important responsibility. A population policy that
does not helpin mobilisationof adequate resources for funding
healthybuild-upofthe mindand physiqueof the infantsislikely
to miss the basic point that if children are born with handicaps
the futureofthe countrywouldremainhandicappedfor decades.
Healthy children are the base of a happy nation in the years to
come. It needs to be underlinedthat ifthe health ofthe children
receives high priority, the decline in the infant mortality rate
would itself create an environmentfor a change in the attitude
towards family size.
People'in rural areas findthat there are no health facilities
available to them and their children may ~ie due to lack of it.
In order to have security both in terms of child survival and
old age support, they go for at least three or four children. The
better offin the society,however, can take greater care of their
children because of being sure of getting all the medical care
that scienceand technology can provide them in today'sworld.
In the name health care being the responsibilityof the society
or the state, we are actually leaving poor rural folks.to their
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ownfate. Weshouldnot forgetthatwe havegiventhem freedom
.>-i
. to liveas theylike. It is a nationwherewehavegivenrightto
every individual whether literate or illiterate, poor or rich,
that he will not only decide about himself but he will also
decide the course of history for all of us. Ifmore than 50 per
cent of population is below poverty line, if nearly 50 per cent
people are illiterate in this country, what is going to happen?
What 'will be the psychological impact of this section of the
society on others and the leadership?
The other related question for human capital build-up is
the nature and quality of the educational system. We need to
question ourselves as to how far we have been ableto improve
and reform the educational system which was handed over to
us by the British. In spite of a large number of studies, reports
of committees and high-power commissions and their
recommendations, the educational system in the country, in
essence, continues to be the same as it was during the colonial
phase oflndian history. We have yet not reformed the system
to be the one which could promote professional competence
or helpthe youth to thinkindependentlyand that too in terms of
immediatecommunity and national interest. The educational
,
system needs to be thought of in a different manner than what
has been the case so far.
.P
Spread of education is closelyassociated with population
control. This has been amply demonstrated in Kerala which
has the highest literacy rate and the lowest rate of population
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growth. The opposite is true of states like Madhya Pradesh
and Rajasthan where literacy rate is not high. Education,
particularly among the women, increases the effectivenessof
population control programmes. To build human capital of
excellence has, therefore, to be the primary concern of a
purposeful population policy.
Education of women is particularly important and this
aspect of education is lacking in our country. If women are
educated, they can take better care oftheir children and playa
great role in makingthem healthy,usefuland intelligentcitizens.
I shall like to emphasizethat we should arrange to provide to
every child, whether a boy or a girl, a free and compulsory
education upto the age of 14 years as an urgent national
endeavour as given in the Directive Principles of the
Constitution.
Providing education and health care to all childrenmeans
that they grow int0 a healthyyoung man or young women who
would expect productivejobs in order to lead a lifeof dignity.
Here comesthe problemof employment.Withtheadvancement
of technologyandthe associatedluxuryand comfortthat people
are enjoying in many parts of the world, we are also aspiring
to have the same facilitiesin our lives. But, I know that all the
indigenous methods that were providing jobs to millions of
our people, though are not enough to provide a comfortable
life, can at least give them sustenance. This employment to
millions is being threatened by technology. Since survival is
the basic instinct of human beings, people are not bothered
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about what will be the future of India or whether they will
have the comforts and benefits oftechnology, they are simply
interested in survival. As long as a large section of population
is just struggling for survival, we.cannot pull out ITomthem
the indigenousemploymentfacilitiesthat gavethem sustenance.
Unlesswe think afreshabouteducation, employmentandhealth
services in the changing climate,I don't think we shall be able
to make a great impact on population front.
Our populationpolicy,therefore,mustrelateto the question
of employment.How best to exploit the human capitalremains
a critical question. A balance between needs oftechnological
advancement on the one hand and provision of productive
employment to all on the other hand has to be maintained. A
population policy of a country like India must aim at ensuring
optimal utilisation of the human resources. The question of
employment is intricately related with the production system,
the technology and the product mix. A variety of productive
activities would not have been taken up in the absence of
technological breakthroughs. Some technology innovations
help reduce human drudgeiy. Promotion of new technologies,
however, should not lead to widening of disparity between
man and man. Adoption of technologies with adverse impact
on the employment potential can create a variety of social
complications. Capital intensive processes may be more
profitable but in a society ridden with large mass of the
unemployed, such a change-overmay prove disastrous for the
vulnerable sections of the population.
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Choice of technology is not merely a technical issue. It
has its moral and social implications. For those engaged in
the traditional professionseven;ameagre income derivedtrom
the activity could indeed be adequate to survive and save
oneself and the family trom starvation. Hand spinning and
weaving is a major source of livelihood for millions in this
country though the activityprovides low and marginalreturns.
If one were to go back to Gandhijiand place high premium on
handmade goods in our daily life, India could hope to emerge
as a more just society. Instead of welcoming all new
technologieswe needto havean objectivedebateon technology
uses. Should India go for capital intensive techniques of
production in areas which offer immediate employment
opportunitiesto a largesection ofthe society?Theissuesraised
by Gandhiji are still relevant. The social relevance and
justification of new technologies have to be criticallyassessed
in the Indian context.
The reservation policytowards smallenterprises and rural
industries was inspired by the urge to protect and promote
employment opportunities in the villages and smalltowns for
artisans and others dependent on agro-based activities. We
seem to be fast deviating from the policy of protection and
promotion of small man and the small sector. The large
.employmentpotentialofferedby the sector and that too in-rural
and backward areas needs to be tapped. This helps in avoiding
large scalemigrationand the associatedhardships. If the policy
towards the small, the unorganised and rural sectors is not
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related to t'heemploymentpotential, one would miss the basic
justification in support of these sectors.
Withoutadequate employmentopportunitieseven countries
with low density of population suffer from excess population
syndrome. Many Mrican countries are the cases in point. On
the other hand, countrieslikeJapan and u.K., though havevery
highdensityofpopulation,do not seemto facemajorpopulation
related problems. In developing countries with large number
of unemployed youth, one preferred alternative could be their
deployment for mass education and other projects of nation-
building. A population policy for youth mobilisation could
make a phenomenal contribution to nation-building besides
giving the youth self-confidenceand a sense of self-respect.
It has to be accepted that in a country like India for a
vast majority of the population it is not possibleto take care of
the health and education of their children. It is beyond their
means. The provision of such basic and essential services is
the re'sponsibilityof the state. This kind of thinking emanates
trom a faith which believes that state shall help develop the
fullest possible genius of its population.
While it is the right of the childrento demand protection
and all such support that is needed for their development, it is
an obligation of the state to meet the rightful demands of the
new generation. In such a framework subsidiesfor health and
education have to be treated as legal and moral obligations of
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the state and fundamental rights of the population. Can we
assert that governments of the day subscribe to such a
philosophy? During the recent past, state subsidy,including
the one on food to the mostunderprivilegedhas beendenounced
as 'dole' and' tree lunch' in national and international fora. In
practice, publicinvestments in health and education are being
reduced and larger space in professional education and health
is being earmarked to private industry. Health and education
are the few sectorswhich arenot amenableto eitherfree market
mechanismor to private development. Role of the state cannot
be limited to balancing of revenue and expenditure alone. It
has to be evolved in such a manner that the state can discharge
its national obligations which are spelt out in the Indian
Constitution.
The past few years have witnessed attempts at reducing
the responsibilityand obligationof the state towards the people.
At the ideological level it is being argued that we need to
abolish planning in this country as free market system is
superior to planneddevelopment. It is fashionableto condemn
allregulationswithout suggestingalternatives. This,ironically,
is claimedto be the economic reforms. The plan structure and
policies are being dismantled. The planning system in India
was not built overnight. It was evolved over decades. And in
this all sectionsof the societyhad actively participated.During
the mid - 'forties, inspired by the discussions at the National
Planning Committee, the top private industrialists proposed a
Plan for Economic Development of India, which came to be
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known as the Bombay Plan. It was not a matter of accident
that National Planning Committee was housed in Bombay
House and JRD Tata was one the important personalities
promoting ideas on the Bombay Plan. The labour unions
contributed by suggestingan alternative plan document called
Peoples' Plan. There was a Gandhian Plan too.
Indian plans have always sought to provide a vision, an
ideal and a dream. This in turn offered a hope of better days
even for the most vulnerable sections. . The new economic
policy package seekingto reverse all policies emanating from
the logic of plan has no such characteristics or claims. The
new policies seek to establish an economic order with no
restrictions on movement of foreign capital, MNCs and the
like along with removal of all forms of restrictions and
regulations on imports and exports. Will policies to promote
globalisationhelpIndia meet the problems'ofpoverty, regional
imbalances, widespread unemployment and growing foreign
debt? Who shall take care of what was known as the 'lubby of
the future'?Who shallseekprotection of the vulnerablesections
and social property and draw attention to social issues? In the
new economic policy framework does the Planning
Commission have any relevance? Should the Directive
Principles of State Policy be re-written?
There has been repeated emphasis on the merits of free
markets at home and internationally. Little attention is being
paid to the limits and potential dangers of excessive reliance
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on free market systemespeciallyin societieswith large poverty
and inter-personal disparities. The open door policy of
unrestricted entry of MNCs is bound to have serious
repercussions on the pattern of economic development and
social structure.
In the end I would say that population problemscannotbe
reduced to population statistics alone or to discussions on
control of population growth. The objective of population
policies has to be the development of the people and
identification of ways and means to enhance their potential to
contribute to national development. In this, health, nutrition,
education and employment of the people have to be the main
areas of concern. Equally important are the institutions and
policieswhichpermitexpressionof the best inthe humanbeing.
In creating such an environment state is under obligation to
playa key role. Dr. Bharat Ram Ii, if a person like you and
Mr. Godrej as industrialists take up these issues and resolve
to help children of those who are poor, neglected and under-
privileged, and see that they get education and proper health
care, I think your word about population control will go a
long way.
Today,whilerememberingJRD Tata,we should not forget
the responsibilityand the obligation we have towards society.
And that obligation cannot bejust preaching people of having
smaller family but just to give them a sense of security that
they are being cared for. They are not only beingtalked to but
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should be helped, assisted and encouraged in order to see that
they contribute by producing children who are educated and
healthy.I hope that the Population Foundation oflndia which
is being as'sociatedwith the name of JRD and which is chaired
by a person of tremendous experience,eminence,philanthropy,
Dr. Bharat Ram Ji will think about population policy in this
broader context and willbe able to take a purposeful view on
the question of population and development.
I would also appeal to all political parties, business
groups, the intelligentsia and all others of the thinking
population of India to examine whether population policies
and development can be pursued without a national plan
perspective.
Question & Answer Session
The highlight of an hour long oration on "Population and
Development Crisis in India" by Shri Chandra Shekhar was a
lively question and answer session, in which eminent
population experts, scholars and mediapersons participated.
He candidly replied questions on issues ranging from the lack
of political will in solvingpopulation problem to the status of
women in relation to familyplanning. Excerpts:
Question
: Corruption at political level is
rampant in the country today.Why
is this state of affairs present in
the political system?
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Chandra Shekhar
. This state of affair is because of
degeneration of politicians. The other
reason is that if money can get
anything; power, comfort, luxury,
honour and respect in the society,
people are bound to be corrupted.
Question
: Chandra Shekhar Ji, unlike the
achievements of Tamil Nadu where
within a decade infant mortality has
declined considerably, fertility now
below replacement leveland literacy
very high, why your state of Uttar
Pradesh and particularly your
district of Balia is not doing well in
this field?
Chandra Shekhar . First, I shall like to correct the
statistics; Balia is one of the most
literate districts of Uttar Pradesh. It is
only second to Meerut. About Tamil
Nadu what you have said is correct.
But you shouldrememberone thing;it
was in 1967when Mr. Kamraj left the
seat of power in TamilNadu, by that
time every village of TamilNadu had
a primary education facility. It was
Kamraj Ji who created educational
infrastructure in those days. Being a
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Gandhian and true Congress worker
himself, without much education, but
having feelings for the poor, he did
it. Subsequently, many things
happened in TamilNadu. It isnot only
that population is controlled now in
TamilNadu but manyother thingsalso
happened there which are not very
salutary and I don't want to refer to
them. The main thing is that people
were made conscious of small family
norm. The other thing is that people
of TamilNadu were not taken by the
glamorous ways ofthe west but resort
to simple living that remained
traditional. And this imbibes in them
the sense of dignity which was taught
to them by 'rishis' and' saints'.
Question
: Inspite of many-fold development
and its fruit is not percolatingto the
grassroots. How can one solve this
problem, when there is a lack of
political will and all-round
corruption in the country ?
ChandraShekhar . I fully agree with you. If there is no
political will, nothing is possible.
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Howsoever much we may decry
politics, it is going to determine the
future of this country;because state is
an instrumentwhichmakespeopleto .
work in a particular manner. If there
is no political will, there is no hope.
Another point you raised is that it is
not only development in economic
terms that is essential, the
development of human being as a
whole is also equally important.
There has been economic
development but there has not been
social development in the sense that
we have not producedmenandwomen
of excellence or men of quality
because we have not been ableto give
them the basic minimumneeds, that is,
education, primaryhealth servicesand
the proper environment where they
could feel confident to perform well
in society. Therpfore, we should try
to seethat people don't sufferindignity
because of inequality that has been
created by the present course of
economic development.
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Question
: We created Bangladesh and for
the last 25 years people from
Bangladesh have been coming in
large numbers to India. They are
adding to our population and that
comes in the way of development.
What do you think about it ?
ChandraShekhar . First,we did not createBangladesh.
It was created by Gen. Ayuband his
policies along with inadequacies of
Pakistan regime at that time. We only
helpedthe peoplewho were suffering.
It is, however, true that people are
coming from Bangladesh and that
poses a serious problem for our
country. I don't know how to stop it.
Because many countries of the world,
with more vigorous efforts and
resources have not been ableto stop
migration. With allher power, United
States of America has not been able
to control illegal migrants from
Mexico. We should try to do
something and see that illegal
migration is reduced to the minimum.
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Question
: I want to raise two questions: one is
general, as you said, wherever there
had been economic development,
there has been a desire for small
family and therefore family planning
automatically takes place. Is it not
a vicious circle, Sir, that if there
will be no economic development
there is higher fertility and if there
is higher fertility, there will be no
development? Second, what is the
relationship in your view between
status of women and family
planning?
Chandra Shekhar
. In my speech, about economIC
development, I have also mentioned
about humandevelopment. Economic
developmentmayat times dehumanize
the society. If the economic
development is encouraging
development of human personality
then that will not create the crisis of
development and population.
Together with the economic
development, we should try to
develop human beings also, so that
they could realizetheir potential and
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become aware about the challengesof
the society. And in that context I
mentioned that our people should be
educated, more so our mothers and
sisters because they have to take care
oftheir children; they haveto develop
a good personality for their children
who have to be the builders of
tomorrow's India. About women; the
fact is well established that the child
whatever he learns in the five years
of his initial life is a major influence
- 80 per cent of his personality. Only
20 per cent or a small portion is
contributed by the social interaction
and education in schools and colleges.
Therefore, in first five years, a child's
personality is shaped in the (;ompany
of his mother and that has tremendous
impact on his personalityin adult life.
If our mothers are not taken care,
childrenbecome the neglected section
of our society. I strongly feel that
women should be given the desired
role in society and that role should be
in making a real humanbeing of them
and this is more important than the
contributions of men in shaping the
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4.1 Page 31

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future. In India, thishas been accepted
for thousands ofyears. Unfortunately,
we are decrying everything that is in
ou'r past because we think that
imitatingsome other people who have
the civilizationof only a few hundred
years are more important than having
some faith in the glorious tradition of
this country.
Question
: Can micro level planning be linked
with 'PanchayatiRaj'? Is thereany
hope for micro level planning to
succeed especially after the
amendments?
ChandraShekhar . The 'Panchayati Raj' experiment is
good. But it also dependson what type
of people are being elected to the
panchayats. For example, after some
women members have come to the
panchayat, there is some initial
sobering impact on the functioning of
panchayat, but whether this will
continue or not only time will tell.
However, Panchayati raj is a must for
holistic development of the society.
Much depends on; what type of
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powers are given to them; what type
of initiatives are taken at state level
in order to provide more impetus for
their development and more power
and initiativeto the panchayatsto take
care of their own environment.
Question
: Since development willcome only in
the long run and in view of a major
chunk of our population living below
the poverty line, what will you
suggest in the short run ?
Chandra Shekhar
. Thereisno shortrun.Weshouldgo to
the people. The societies like
PopulationFoundationof India should
go to people and tell them that they
should have few children and give
them the wherewithal to do so. This
is necessary but not sufficient. If the
Foundation can give them
contraceptives and pills, and also
assure them that there will be no
adverse reactions and ifthere are any,
they willget the needed medical care,
such endeavour willbring some good
results. In short term, such initiatives
shouldnot be stopped. But we should
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think of long term implications
because short term implications are
obvious and people are alreadytaking
initiatives.Many social organizations,
government and non-governmental
organizations,havetaken initiativebut
inspite of allthis, we are failing. And
that is why we should take the long
term view of development in our
population policies and programmes.
Question
: Can we take up Chinese mode of
population control?
Chandra Shekhar
. Wecannottake up Chinesemodeof
population control because inspite of
all praises being hurled upon Chinese
experiment today, China for a long
time, was a regimented sooiety and it
is eI1tirelydifferent trom our society.
I shallnot like to condemn them or in
any way try to minimizetheir efforts,
but unfortunately, Indian society
cannot be compared with the Chinese
society of today. Therefore, it is not
possiblenow to take up Chinesemode
of population control. Let us see what
happens in China after few years with
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the new wave of liberalization
occurring there.
Dr. Bharat Ram
: Chandra Shekhar Ji, are you going
to become a 'Young Turk' again or
not? Are you prepared to go from
Kanyakumari to Delhi, as you did
in your 'padyatra' earlier? Are you
going to help us in propagating to
political bosses whether they are
going to take the matter of
education and particularly of female
education seriously or not?
Chandra Shekhar
. Mr. Chairman, I fully agree with you.
And I am going to take those
suggestions very seriously, but you
should understand my difficulty. If I
say something and take some
initiative,it is beingtaken with certain
amountof apprehensionat leastamong
the political circles. I don't want to
create more controversies in this
country. We have enough confron-
tations and controversies,but I assure
you, if a person of your stature, takes
up this cause and comes from Delhi
to Kanyakumari, I shall spend all the
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time with you, without having any
considerations whatever the political
implicationmight be. Because then it
will not be taken as a political move.
Ifpersonsin the fieldof education and
industrywho think about the future of
the country, create a group and they
are ready to go trom place to place,
to press upon the governments and
other people, that education is
important,I amgoingto beone humble
member of that group. That much
assurance I can give you. .
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